So, I think that sometimes game designers suffer from what I think of as science envy. Game designers are often very analytic people because we make structures with rules. We’re often, you know, uh, somewhere maybe on the Asperger’s spectrum of, you know, really wanting to figure out how we can put the world into boxes and - and systematize things, uh, at least for - for a lot of game designers. Obviously game designers come in many forms. Um, and there’s a - sometimes an impulse to kind of like lock down definitions, really understand this is what a game is. And sometimes that impulse is an overcorrection to something that’s wrong with the industry. For example, uh, about ten years ago in the game industry we saw a lot of these big 3D budget, uh, games, uh, big budget games that were - that were, you know, had lots of cinematic cut scenes and - and very, very limited game play and they really were about trying to replicate the pleasures of cinema. And there was a generation of game designers making those kinds of games saying we have to, um, make games more open ended. We have to give the player the ability to express themselves. Games are not about us, designers expressing ourselves, it’s about the players being able to express themselves. And that was kind of a beautiful and very interesting idea. Now, ten years later, we’re seeing the - the exact opposite which is that there’s a lot of people saying, “Well, the game industry has had a certain kind of game creator. We want new diverse voices. And people are saying the - the only thing that’s important is the voice of the creator.” That the game designer’s voice is - is the most important thing and the game is a - is a channel for them to kind of communicate who they are to the world, um, and to the players for their game play. And those things are totally contradictory, right? One says that - that what’s important is the players expressing themselves and the other says that the, um, that the game designer is expressing themselves. But, in fact, they’re both correct. And, um, you know, we would never say about literature, for example, that literature is just one thing. We wouldn’t say, well, literature is really about, you know, the evolution of plot structures and how people learn to tell more complicated stories. We - wouldn’t say, well, literature is just about the history of the printing press and how new technologies make distribution of information to the masses easier. We wouldn’t say that - that literature is just about the - the representation of gender, and the gender politics of - of how, uh, stories reflect our societies and - and culture. Obviously all of those things are - are true at the same time. And to say that literature is just one thing cheapens the enterprise as a whole for everyone that’s involved. So, I would say that - that this is part of what I mean when I say that truth is utility in games. We don’t want to cling too hard to the idea that games are just one thing. Um, they’re many things. Now, in terms of how this applies when you’re making a game, uh, is that a lot of people have very - have very, um, strict concepts about what - what they’re trying to do with the game. Well, I’m trying to tell a story and to tell a story first you make a world. And then you have a character. And then, so you may have a very set procedure for doing that. And, um, you know, the - the, uh, the - the truth of a concept I feel for designers is its ability to help us solve problems. You know, when you’re - when you’re studying wrestling, for example, um, you might learn a concept for a stance, right? So, you can’t see the lower half of my body, but let’s say that I’m, imagine I’m getting into a wrestling position here now, right. So, I’ve got 45% of the weight on this foot and my - my back foot is at a certain angle relative to the - my shoulders and that kind of thing. If you’re training wrestling you study the exact correct way that those stances, you know, need to be in your body. But, when you’re actually in a match, when you’re wrestling with someone, who cares if you have the exact correct stance that you’re doing, right. So, so, um, what’s more important is how you can utilize and improvise with the knowledge and skills that you have in the heat of trying to overcome this problem. And for designers, the - the wrestling match is trying to wrestle with the design problem that you have. So, concepts are important. But you want to use them and deploy them at certain moments, right, so you might have certain mathematical ideas about what a game is that you can use at a certain point when you’re trying to balance the - the - the economic systems in your game to get them just right. On the other hand, if your play testers are telling you I don’t like this character, I don’t feel anything for them, then maybe the mathematics matter less and it might end up being more about the - the politics of gender representation in your game. Who is this character, what’s their story, why are people relating or not relating to them in the way that you hoped that they would? So, that’s the sense in which truth is utility. Right, is it - is it true that games are just a set of mathematical rules? Well, when you’re looking at them as math, sure. Um, but that, that whole way of looking at games might - might not be relevant when you’re - when you’re trying to look at them in terms of a - a, you know, in terms of story and character and the psychology of - of how a - how a player relates to the character that they’re playing, which itself is just really, uh, you know, complicated, uh, complicated question. So, so what we - what I try and do when I teach game designers is have them think about games in - in lots of different ways, in multiple points of view. So, so you’re - you’re heading in like Batman with all of your, you know, different tools on your tool bed - belt and, you know, just because you have a grappling hook doesn’t - doesn’t make your battering untrue. It just means that it - it might not work in - in one situation. And I think for me as a game designer one of the things I love so much about it is that being a game designer means that you are - you are working on levels sometimes of mathematics and logic. But you’re also working in terms of aesthetics and storytelling and music. And you’re also working in terms of understanding how what you’re doing fits into culture at large. You also have to be a, sort of a cultural anthropologist. And, and it’s such a wonderful kind of discipline because it really - you’re really firing on all cylinders at - at different points in the process. And, uh, yeah, I love making games, if you can’t tell.