The idea that you can sort of smear on some game stuff and not only might you get some increased loyalty- kind of borrowing from the loyalty program concepts of games, which are a very low level and less systemic and more about reward, but also you get this cultural cache- you can say, "We're gamifying our website or our service. We're adding games to it," you can go to your senior executing team and explain how you are getting in touch with the youth of today by incorporating games into your environment. And you can tell yourself as well that you've kind of ticked that box off, right? We've got our social media strategy, our game strategy, check, and we can move on. We can go home. But that's not the way things work; things are hard. It's hard to do stuff. And it's hard to make games about anything, but it's really hard to incorporate the idea of modeling things, modeling the way things work and giving people a sense of an experience that's interesting and that works and that gives them this kind of ambiguous sense of choices but also gives them a reason to pursue multiple directions within that system. That's kind of hard, it's kind of a black art, and it's so much easier to assign points to reading your stories. I don't think what you get out of the pointsification process, if you can use that word instead, is value. But it might be institutional value. And so much of this sort of transition from one medium to another is really about institutional politics. It's not so much about what the media can do even; it's the ways that we've been entrenched. And in that way, you can say it's the system of our institutions that we're really interested in. Which really shows, from my perspective, just shows how powerful this idea of looking at the world as systems is rather than looking at the world as individual people telling stories or pursuing the kinds of acts that they have short-handed with professions and disciplines.